Looks like damage control to me

A cacklefest from Dawkins and Myers re: their experience at the Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed screening in Minneapolis. Most laughable is how they figure they "got us" by blowing the whistle on our cell animation segment. Glad to hear you're on the ball, PZ, but you're barking up the wrong tree. But if it makes you feel mighty, go for it!

Comments

[Lind L. Tailor]

How many hoops do you expect people to jump through before you'll face facts, Kevin? Your hangup on real names is a load of bullshit, and I'm sure you know it.

Will you keep dodging the question NOW, Kevin?

"Do you, Kevin Miller, believe that it is morally acceptable to promote falsehoods about the Holocaust for monetary or political gain?"

And if, after your unartful dodging, you claim the answer is no, how do you live with yourself writing for a movie that does just that?

[phantomreader42]

So, for the record, you, Kevin Miller, believe that it is morally acceptable to promote falsehoods about the Holocaust for monetary or political gain. A simple "no" to this question would have shown that you have at least some tiny shred of human decency. But you chose to dodge it.

Of course, had you given that "no" answer, which would have been obvious to anyone with a conscience, there would still have been tough questions to answer about how such falsehoods ended up in your movie if you disapprove of them. But by refusing to answer, you show that you do not disapprove, you have no moral objection to lying about the deaths of millions for a cheap political attack. You have no morals at all.

When you are so cowardly that you refuse to face up to the obvious implications of your work, accusing someone else of cowardice is laughable.

[Kevin Miller]

I'll answer your question when you share your real name. Do you really think it's fair for you to spout such foul invective at me anonymously while my information is out there in the open? When you're brave enough to put your name behind your words, I may take your questions seriously.

[phantomreader42]

My real name is none of your damn business.

I was not involved in the interview process. I'm just sick and tired of liars like you and the Expelled crew.

I also notice you didn't even bother trying to answer the questions.

And I find it telling that you don't seem to see any moral problem with lying to obtain footage, or using ham-handed Holocaust imagery to defame your opponents.

Every review I've seen of your foul movie mentions your promotion of the "Evolution caused the Holocaust" slander, or some variation thereof. Even sympathetic reviews.

Do you really not see any problem with this? Do you really think it's okay to perpetuate this lie?

If nothing else, please answer this question. Do you, Kevin Miller, believe that it is morally acceptable to promote falsehoods about the Holocaust for monetary or political gain?

[Kevin Miller]

I have a question for you, Phantom: Why does Expelled make you so angry, especially considering you have never seen it? You seem to be taking it as a personal affront that the film even exists. What's your real name? Were you somehow involved in the interview process?

[phantomreader42]

Why just pick one, when you've dodged so many questions?

"Is evolution tied to nazism or not?"

Which cell biologists made the animation? How were they credited?

How can you write creationist propaganda that uses the Holocaust as ammo for cheap political attacks and have any integrity?

[Kevin Miller]

What question, John? There are a lot of them.

[John]

Great question, Anon. Does Kevin have the integrity to answer it?

[M]

"Your animation copied the information from Harvard's video, did not add to it, and presented the information in the same flow of ideas."

We are talking about Creationists here. If they could be anything else than imbecilic sheep incapable of creativity the would NOT be Creationists.

[phantomreader42]

John, Kevin has no integrity at all. He's a writer for creationist propaganda that uses the Holocaust as nothing more than ammo for a cheap attack on science. How could he do that job if he had any integrity?

[John]

Kevin,

The above question is a good one. Why not have the integrity to answer it?

[Salamander]

"Their accusations that we "borrowed" this piece from Harvard is completely unfounded. Our team created it for our film."

Let's revisit this, although I know it is several days old. Being a screenwriter, you should be familiar with the concept of plagiarism. You should also know that plagiarism is not just yoinking Harvard's video and showing it without permission, it is *duplicating* their video by making your own video presenting the same information in the same way including the same bits and excluding the same bits. Apparently you guys even thought it too difficult to come up with different viewing angles and present essentially the same images in your copy. Plagiarism does not just stop at words or pictures, it extends to "paraphrases" of words and pictures, and even beyond that to the basic organization of information.

Your animation copied the information from Harvard's video, did not add to it, and presented the information in the same flow of ideas. If you put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. You can mock-up your own video so it's superficially different from the Harvard original, but if you don't make substantial changes to presentation, information content, and the flow of concepts, it's still PLAGIARISM.

[Duae Quartunciae]

Kevin; thank you for a very clear answer on the provenance of your animation. I took the liberty of noting your plain response at a couple of blogs, as a caution against uncritical acceptance of the comments in the Dawkins Myers video; comments which disturbed me from the very first time I saw the video.

I'm glad to see now that PZ Myers has retracted his remarks, stating frankly that he was wrong.

On your own animations, you say in the comment dated March 23, 2008 at 08:09 AM:

"... If Dawkins had stuck around to read the full credits for the film, he would have known this. It has nothing to do with the Illustra animation."

Would you mind please indicating what the credits did say? Who is credited with the animations produced for expelled?

Cheers -- Duae Quartunciae

[John]

Kevin, you wrote:
"Duae: We created the animation in conjunction with an animation studio and several cell biologists. It is a completely original work."

Which cell biologists, Kevin?

[Boris]

But the EXPELLED website states that:
" In fact, Nazi Germany is the thread that ties everything in the movie together. Evolution leads to atheism leads to eugenics leads to Holocaust and Nazi Germany."

Which is it? Is evolution tied to nazism or not?

Um, Kevin you forgot to answer the question.

[Norman Doering]

"If so, I am surprised PZ hasn't issued a correction."

He has now:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/about_that_cell_video_in_expel.php

[Kevin Miller]

How am I squelching that viewpoint again?

[steve_h]

Actually, it's the Darwin-atheism-Hitler connection which the film is trying to communicate. So Kevin is technically correct when he denies that the film is about only any two of these.

[steve_h]

PZ has acknowledged that he was mistaken regarding alledged improper use of the "Inner Life" video.

It looks like it was a very simple mistake to make.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/about_that_cell_video_in_expel.php#comments

[Jack Rawlinson]

Glad to see you're still digging, Miller. Keep it up.

[phantomreader42]

Kevin miller lied: "We have not lied about a Nazi-Atheism connection. If you actually watch the film, you'll see we don't even address that topic. However, we do address the Darwin-Hitler connection."

You lied about the "Darwin-Hitler connection". But lying is nothing new for you. Lying is your way of life. Lying is your religion.

[Anon]

I am confused. You state above:
"2. We have not lied about a Nazi-Atheism connection. If you actually watch the film, you'll see we don't even address that topic. However, we do address the Darwin-Hitler connection."

But the EXPELLED website states that:
" In fact, Nazi Germany is the thread that ties everything in the movie together. Evolution leads to atheism leads to eugenics leads to Holocaust and Nazi Germany."

Which is it? Is evolution tied to nazism or not?

[Tegumai Bopsulai, FCD]

The viewpoint that says the people behind Expelled! pirated a Harvard/XVivo animation.

[steve_h]

Kevin: Is that a "Yes"?

[Kevin Miller]

Whose viewpoint am I asking to be squelched again?